Bass western opens?????????

scott h · Post by **scott h** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:54 am

I heard some rumors before the jamboree that bass was definatly coming back to the west for the 2010 season, I just cant find any thing solid confirming that.Anyone know any details? I would love to fish them again and dont really have the funds to drive east for the opens. Just wondering.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 am

Elite Series no Opens

rdearmond · Post by **rdearmond** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:59 am

Ricky is correct, Bassmaster Elite series have two scheduled for the west coast for 2010

March 11~14 Delta
March 18~21 Clear Lake

You can always marshall, but based on the last tournament that could be sketchy. I think 2 or 3 marshalls were ejected from their Elite Series pros boat.

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:54 am

I watched about 5 minutes of BassCast and it look like the Marshal was fighting just to stay awake.....

scott h · Post by **scott h** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:03 am

I do not want to bash bass because I would fish them in a heartbeat if they came back but wuts the deal? If it is a money issue im sure they could find a way to conduct tournaments cheaper than in the past, local help or western division tournament crew? Or do they not want any more western talent dominating the elites? is it a pride issue? ideas anyone?

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:09 am

Even if people made it into the Elite Series, which I have, how many would fit the bill or shoot all of their sponsor dollars on $80,000 to $100,000 for a year.

I am sticking with FLW. Events are on TV and I can fish for more money on lakes that I know and can be in my own bed in less than a day.

With that said, I would also fish the Open if they can but not to get into the Elites. Too rich for my blood.

leachman90 · Post by **leachman90** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:12 am

I would fish them without a 2nd though as well. BUT when BASS pulled out of the west thats when I pulled out of BASS, no more mag or support for them.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:19 am

Turnout plain and simple!!!!!! we didn't show when they came, the Southern region and eastern region fill up the day reg is available. There is even a waiting list!!!!!

I'm glad to see permits with FLW, because 2 of my friends that fish the FLW tour and live out west said they heard that FLW may not be back in 2010 either (due to turnout)...... I hope those permits show their coming back. There still may be a possibility they dont come back. they may have gotten the permits just in case.....

rdearmond · Post by **rdearmond** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:21 am

Can anyone fish an Elite Series event? I have only fished FLW as a pro and basically anyone can just pay the extra $$ and swing with FLW, and thats cool. But I'm not sure about entry on the Bassmaster Elite side.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:24 am

Pulling your subsciption will only hurt our chances of them coming back....

As far as Elites go, They are best of the best. Unless your going to do it full time and your good enough to compete with the best, stay out. Alot of people cant hack it...and thats the truth.....If it was so bad then there would be a bigger turn over....Most elite guys make plenty of money...

FLW is a good way to stay employed with a full time job and make a little fishing. Good grass roots tour..

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:27 am

NO not anyone can fish Elite's, you have to qualify.

Thats why FLW isn't considered top notch when fishing full time....

Too many cherry pickers that screw up the full time pro's points and paychecks. Anybody with a checkbook can fish pro with FLW...

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:48 am

Come on Bigbass I thought this conversaton was over.

I'll stick to the question-No Opens which is a bummer.

I guess-Brent Erler, Jay Yelas, David Dudley, David Fritts, Larry Nixon and several other FLW pros are not considered top notch when fishing full time? I bet those guys make just as much money as the top BASS guys and more than you or I.

I would agree that MOST (not all) of the bass guys are more noticible but because of ESPN. But money in the bank is money in the bank.

There are pleanty of guys in FLW that are living a good life doing what they love to do and there are the same number of BASS guys that will bust up their credit cards trying to chase their dream.

We are just blessed to have options. One is not better than the other. They both have benefits and draw backs. I am thankful that FLW allows us to chase our dreams.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:42 pm

I can agree to that....

But there are very few top notch guys with FLW. And a few of them couldn't hack it on the Elite's, correct. Some of them didn't make up enough regular season points to stay. Unfortunatly if you were to ask the average joe fisherman who David Dudley was they would shrug their shoulders. Ask them who KVD, SkEET, IKE, CLUNN, ROJAS, BRAUER, KLEIN, SWINDLE, EVERS, QUINN, BIFFLE, MARTENS, JONES, JORDAN, KENNEDY, OMORI, GRIGSBY, HITE and DUCKETT. And you would probably get a response......

Point is if FLW was just as profitable and less to enter....MORE of these guys would be SMART enough to jump ships right...

But I guess they could care less to have a free boat for the season and discounted entry for a salary (MOST FLW PRO'S)....

I think taking in 100% of your hard earned sponsor money and PROMOTING yourself not the orginization is the right FULL time choice. Thats why you see the best talent with BASS...

AND IT SHOWS..

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:21 pm

justin have you been living under a rock? Fantasy fishing has made David Dudley a house hold name ten times over those guys you mentioned. Tony

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:26 pm

No he is just your average Triton guy that can't see through the light. You couldn't even get KB to support that arguement.

He's just another one of those guys with their head in the clouds that thinks if he make's it to the Elite Series someone will put up the dough that it costs to fish with the big boys. NOT going to happen buddy.

I on the other hand could careless who puts the derbie on as long as I get to fish for a living.

This FLW vs BASS is nothing but BS. Just like Chevy vs Ford when Toyota is making more money then both.

You can have the fame-just give me the money!

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:29 pm

He also fails to remember that BASS would still be giving away boats if it weren't for FLW.

Competition is a good thing and we need both orgs to offer more for us anglers.

Now if you want to have a real conversation, us anglers should be running the tournaments like the PGA. That's the real problem....

rdearmond · Post by **rdearmond** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:47 pm

Bigbass:
Check the tournament entry and results page on FLW. All the divisions have sticks. Jay, Fritts, Ish, even are west coast guys Ricky, Tom, Jim D., Jeff M. I could go on for days. You could put any of these guys in the Elite Series with good sponsers and they would do well. And as far as cherry pickers I do not beleive that look at Greg G. on Clear Lake a few years ago. Do you think he cherry picked that? No, he was unable to fish the rest of the Elite Schedule because he had to work on fires around the north state .

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:56 pm

I didn't read all the posts, but there will be no BASS Opens out West in 2010. Sponsor money is tight right now for them. PM for more details if needed.

For co-anglers, I think the BASS Central Opens is the best deal out there. $300 entry and you're fishing for a boat in each event plus you can draw any of the 15-20 Elite guys who fish them. Thats a sweet deal for co-anglers.

I'm the only guy who goes out there from CA right now (that I know of) but I hear more guys are thinking about it for 2010. I hear FLW has a lot of people broke now after a few years and the Open entry fees are only $1k, you're fishing for $55k, top 3 go to the classic, and top 10 qualify for the elites. Pretty good deal if you like fishing back east.

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:57 pm

Ricky-S wrote:Now if you want to have a real conversation, us anglers should be running the tournaments like the PGA. That's the real problem....

Ricky knows what he's talking about here...

PHENSON · Post by **PHENSON** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:16 pm

Guys it all matters where you feel comfortable with your fishing and what suites you best. I myself make the long journey back because I started fishing back there when I was living in Florida. I found that BASS was a better suit for me. That's why I travel back there still. But for someone else FLW is a better suited for them. It all comes down to where you are most confident and comfortable.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:21 pm

Ricky-S wrote:Even if people made it into the Elite Series, which I have, how many would fit the bill or shoot all of their sponsor dollars on $80,000 to $100,000 for a year.

I am sticking with FLW. Events are on TV and I can fish for more money on lakes that I know and can be in my own bed in less than a day.

With that said, I would also fish the Open if they can but not to get into the Elites. Too rich for my blood.

When did you make the Elites, or got an invite? I personally wouldnt fish the Elites unless I had won 50% of my entry fees. The series and Tours are the only thing on VS, and then only the top 10. FLW is just as expensive as the Elites if you fish both.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:26 pm

scott h wrote:I do not want to bash bass because I would fish them in a heartbeat if they came back but wuts the deal? If it is a money issue im sure they could find a way to conduct tournaments cheaper than in the past, local help or western division tournament crew? Or do they not want any more western talent dominating the elites? is it a pride issue? ideas anyone?

The finances. Gotta lug all kinds of stuff out here and they don't want to grow too fast and have to shut it down.

Plus you have a lot of people that still whine about the way BASS did things back in the day ( you know the same way FLW does now X10) so if you support BASS they will come out. Dont and they WONT.

Sorry but if I gave the average angler a list of pros. Most of the FLW names on the list would be left off. I mentioned dudley to a guy and he thought I was talking about a College WR.

Out west yeah, people know some of the FLW guys, But they sure as #@$@ know who Velvick, Reese, Martens, Folkstead, Roumbanis, Siemental, Rojas, Ish, and Linter are.

Give them FLW names, and Ehler is going to be one of the only names. Heck, even Roy Hawk is more popular out here than guys like Clark Wendhalt (sp) and alvin shaw, not to mention other guys that no one has heard of that are "big names" in FLW. Go ahead and mention Yelas, Nixon, and other guys that made their name in BASS then switched.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:31 pm

bigbass111 wrote:I can agree to that....

But there are very few top notch guys with FLW. And a few of them couldn't hack it on the Elite's, correct. Some of them didn't make up enough regular season points to stay. Unfortunatly if you were to ask the average joe fisherman who David Dudley was they would shrug their shoulders. Ask them who KVD, SkEET, IKE, CLUNN, ROJAS, BRAUER, KLEIN, SWINDLE, EVERS, QUINN, BIFFLE, MARTENS, JONES, JORDAN, KENNEDY, OMORI, GRIGSBY, HITE and DUCKETT. And you would probably get a response......

Point is if FLW was just as profitable and less to enter....MORE of these guys would be SMART enough to jump ships right...

But I guess they could care less to have a free boat for the season and discounted entry for a salary (MOST FLW PRO'S)....

I think taking in 100% of your hard earned sponsor money and PROMOTING yourself not the orginization is the right FULL time choice. Thats why you see the best talent with BASS...

AND IT SHOWS..

+1

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:33 pm

rdearmond wrote:Bigbass:
Check the tournament entry and results page on FLW. All the divisions have sticks. Jay, Fritts, Ish, even are west coast guys Ricky, Tom, Jim D., Jeff M. I could go on for days. You could put any of these guys in the Elite Series with good sponsers and they would do well. And as far as cherry pickers I do not beleive that look at Greg G. on Clear Lake a few years ago. Do you think he cherry picked that? No, he was unable to fish the rest of the Elite Schedule because he had to work on fires around the north state .

EVERY big name you just mentioned got their name IN BASS. then Switched. Heck I barely was fishing in 2002 and I knew who Nixon, Yelas, and Fritts were.

ISH, is still on the Elites and will have some major issues if he switches. If he is frustrated wait till he gets to the "IM a pro cuz i have $$$"

Delta is beast · Post by **Delta is beast** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:39 pm

nice one j1. who won the 93 classic. FRITTS. NIXON 83. BASS is way better than the flw. There is a reason the big names arnt fishing the flw.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:01 pm

Well since you asked, I made it the the same time that several of the other big name Western pros did. I just elected to stay west and finish college.

As a matter of fact I was also two lost fished away from the classic the same year.

But hey, if you have to tell someone who you are then you aren't who you say you are.

Look it up its there.

The Elites and FLW do not cost the same. The year I made it into the Elite Series Bass called and tried their best to get me to come. I did all the math and based on my calculations I would have had to spend all my sponsor money on one year of fishing against the best in the World on bodies of water that I had never been to. Or, I could stay West finish college and fish for the same money on FLW and have enough money to fish for several years with zero worries about when or where I fish or how my bills get paid.

It takes a special person to put it all on the line and do what those Top Western guys do. I have no desire to be away from home for 7 -8 months out of the year. Best decision I've ever made. Although I would like to have another at shot fishing the Opens again. But I wont travel and compete on those eastern/southern waters. NEVER!

redPHish · Post by **redPHish** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:35 pm

Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing BASS:

Rick Clunn
Paul Elias
Mark Davis
Denny Brauer
Davy Hite
Kevin VanDam
Michael Iaconelli
Boyd Duckett
Skeet Reese
Takahiro Omori
Alton Jones

Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing FLW:

Tommy Martin
Larry Nixon
George Cochran
Guido Hibdon
David Fritts
Dion Hibdon
Woo Daves
Jay Yelas
Luke Clausen

and...

Iaconelli and Omori fish FLW events.

I predict several more Elite Series anglers will fish FLW events next year.

Goes both ways. A bunch of FLW guys went over to BASS and won. Lane, Kennedy, Iaconelli all went over to BASS and won. Denny, Kevin and others fished FLW for a long time and never won. There are a bunch of Elite guys I've still never heard of. The latest winner until he won the last event for example.

CN · Post by CN » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:51 pm

Fish both give them a reason to come back. I have seen this debate before on this and other site's and YOU have to give them there ROI (return on investment)or they wont invest any longer.

Who care's if your fishing for a buck whether it's BASS or FLW.

BASS has done probably more than any orginization has for this sport but so has Forrest L Wood think about it.

Mike Nance

Delta is beast · Post by **Delta is beast** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:07 pm

Ricky-S wrote:Well since you asked, I made it the the same time that several of the other big name Western pros did. I just elected to stay west and finish college.

As a matter of fact I was also two lost fished away from the classic the same year.

But hey, if you have to tell someone who you are then you aren't who you say you are.

Look it up its there.

The Elites and FLW do not cost the same. The year I made it into the Elite Series Bass called and tried their best to get me to come. I did all the math and based on my calculations I would have had to spend all my sponsor money on one year of fishing against the best in the World on bodies of water that I had never been to. Or, I could stay West finish college and fish for the same money on FLW and have enough money to fish for several years with zero worries about when or where I fish or how my bills get paid.

It takes a special person to put it all on the line and do what those Top Western guys do. I have no desire to be away from home for 7 -8 months out of the year. Best decision I've ever made. Although I would like to have another at shot fishing the Opens again. But I wont travel and compete on those eastern/southern waters. NEVER!

Id do the same exact thing. BASS just needs to come out here and have more tourneys just like the flw.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:57 am

redPHish wrote:Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing BASS:

Rick Clunn
Paul Elias
Mark Davis
Denny Brauer
Davy Hite
Kevin VanDam
Michael Iaconelli
Boyd Duckett
Skeet Reese
Takahiro Omori
Alton Jones

Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing FLW:

Tommy Martin
Larry Nixon
George Cochran
Guido Hibdon
David Fritts
Dion Hibdon
Woo Daves
Jay Yelas
Luke Clausen

and...

Iaconelli and Omori fish FLW events.

I predict several more Elite Series anglers will fish FLW events next year.

Goes both ways. A bunch of FLW guys went over to BASS and won. Lane, Kennedy, Iaconelli all went over to BASS and won. Denny, Kevin and others fished FLW for a long time and never won. There are a bunch of Elite guys I've still never heard of. The latest winner until he won the last event for example.

Not being an AZZ but the guys you mentioned on FLW left BASS to comepete against an AAA at BEST field and had won classics in the 80s.
They got SICK deals to switch. Note that Nixon is the ONLY person to be on a team in a boat that isnt a Ranger..... the ONLY ONE in FLW history. I don't think Nixon needs to finish in the top100 in order to get more $$$ than the rest of the field.

Sorry but everyone knows that in FLW you are really only competing again maybe 25 guys with a bunch of wildcards thrown in.

You wouldnt know the guy that won at Oneida because he is a ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:02 am

Ricky-S wrote:Well since you asked, I made it the the same time that several of the other big name Western pros did. I just elected to stay west and finish college.

As a matter of fact I was also two lost fished away from the classic the same year.

But hey, if you have to tell someone who you are then you aren't who you say you are.

Look it up its there.

The Elites and FLW do not cost the same. The year I made it into the Elite Series Bass called and tried their best to get me to come. I did all the math and based on my calculations I would have had to spend all my sponsor money on one year of fishing against the best in the World on bodies of water that I had never been to. Or, I could stay West finish college and fish for the same money on FLW and have enough money to fish for several years with zero worries about when or where I fish or how my bills get paid.

It takes a special person to put it all on the line and do what those Top Western guys do. I have no desire to be away from home for 7 -8 months out of the year. Best decision I've ever made. Although I would like to have another at shot fishing the Opens again. But I wont travel and compete on those eastern/southern waters. NEVER!

I am not going throw invites out there but there is no WAY i would try the elites unless I had the winnings or backing. I need more than 2 hands to count people I know that got invites. 3 took them and finished under 100th. Why? because they got there by default, not by winning and putting themselves in the top of the fields. When a guy like Randall Tharp wins both Opens he enters ( he sandbagged but who cares) do you really think the guy that got to the Elites over him deserved to be there? in 2008 I had made the same or more in winnings that 7 of that field....

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:39 am

Here my 2 cents. Hopefully this helps some guys and isn't confusing:

-Fact: Elites is only $41,600 now in entry fees + ~$15k in expenses and the fees can be paid in quarterly installments.

-From my calculations, the ad value of a top 50 elite pro is a little over $400k on average. Most outdoor advertising we do (I work for a Fortune 100 company) is priced around 40% of ad value meaning an angler should be getting ~$160k per year on average. But here's the reality we all know:

1) Fisherman are fisherman and usually not sales/marketing people; meaning fisherman don't have a clue on how to get their name out there, let alone their sponsors' brand. (not true w/ all anglers, but in general thats probably true)

2) Most fisherman believe if they do good in a tournament they'll get their sponsors name out there...maybe, but that exposure's not likely worth the ad investment unless its on ESPN2 and bassmaster magazine (the 2 highest ad value units in our industry).

3) A lot of fisherman think our sport is as big as Nascar...not true. Our exposure volume is a fraction of Nascar so we have to WORK to get exposure unless your name begins w/ Skeet, Kevin, Gerald, or Ike.

4) Tournament entry fees are going up, not down, in general. Meaning out of pocket are increasing.

5) The only way I can see a business justifying $16k/yr in FLW entry fees is if they are an FLW sponsor and the exposure push from FLW...I'd bet 90% of FLW pros can't generate $16k in ad value on their own...even if they win an event. Some guys definitely can however so more power to them if they can.

FLW is all we got out West right now, so I say fish them if you can and be happy we have something big to fish for out West.

My cash paying sponsors won't touch an FLW event for obvious reasons so my only option is to get out East right now.

Also, FLW sponsored anglers (kelloges, duracel guys, etc.) have a great deal usually from what I hear. They just do what the corporation tells them to do and go fishing the rest of the time...and hopefully their contract is worth it to them.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:36 am

jsoregon wrote:Here my 2 cents. Hopefully this helps some guys and isn't confusing:

-Fact: Elites is only $41,600 now in entry fees + ~$15k in expenses and the fees can be paid in quarterly installments.

-From my calculations, the ad value of a top 50 elite pro is a little over $400k on average. Most outdoor advertising we do (I work for a Fortune 100 company) is priced around 40% of ad value meaning an angler should be getting ~$160k per year on average. But here's the reality we all know:

1) Fisherman are fisherman and usually not sales/marketing people; meaning fisherman don't have a clue on how to get their name out there, let alone their sponsors' brand. (not true w/ all anglers, but in general thats probably true)

2) Most fisherman believe if they do good in a tournament they'll get their sponsors name out there...maybe, but that exposure's not likely worth the ad investment unless its on ESPN2 and bassmaster magazine (the 2 highest ad value units in our industry).

3) A lot of fisherman think our sport is as big as Nascar...not true. Our exposure volume is a fraction of Nascar so we have to WORK to get exposure unless your name begins w/ Skeet, Kevin, Gerald, or Ike.

4) Tournament entry fees are going up, not down, in general. Meaning out of pocket are increasing.

5) The only way I can see a business justifying $16k/yr in FLW entry fees is if they are an FLW sponsor and the exposure push from FLW...I'd bet 90% of FLW pros can't generate $16k in ad value on their own...even if they win an event. Some guys definitely can however so more power to them if they can.

FLW is all we got out West right now, so I say fish them if you can and be happy we have something big to fish for out West.

My cash paying sponsors won't touch an FLW event for obvious reasons so my only option is to get out East right now.

Also, FLW sponsored anglers (kelloges, duracel guys, etc.) have a great deal usually from what I hear. They just do what the corporation tells them to do and go fishing the rest of the time...and hopefully their contract is worth it to them.

I agree but,
To address the nascar deal, that is what ESPN is comparing it too in their powerpoint they give to pros.
FLW tour and series are both meant to compete with BASS Elite events. So you have to add the totals of BOTH as the Tour was 6 events to the Elites 11 at the time.

The FLW team deal isn't as great for some but you do have to be their $#@$ and run what they tell you. Not good for a guy trying to prove he is more than a $$$ whore. Jumping motor brands doesn't look too good.
Put it this way, they do get a salary, and dont "need" to win, but they would make a lot more $$$ in the Elites.
Plus lets be honest, there are some PROS in the FLW but most are AAA or AA Anglers.

If FLW floats your boat by all means go for it. But don't for ONE second think that this ANGST was caused by BASS. FLW started the scheduling war. Remember the goals of the organizations and think about that and how that applies to you in the long run.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:36 am

I am still not sure why we are trying to make this an FLW vs BASS conversation.

Getting and keeping CASH sponsors is about marketing and selling. Period!

It is EXTREMELY hard to get any company to PAY you to fish regardless of what circuit you fish.

The bottom line is that this is an individual sport where successes and riches are very far and between. I have nothing but RESPECT for ANYONE that does this for a living. Truth be told is that there are guys on BOTH tours that are living their dream and could careless if someone recognized their name or face.

If you surveyed anglers on both tours you would find that many of them are struggling to chase their dream and justify the costs. It takes MONEY to do this at any level. If given the opportunity, most guys fishing FLW and BASS would fish both organizations and leave the politics alone.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:51 am

I know Ricky, One of the guys leading the classic wasn't going to do it anymore. He is a great guy too. Its too expensive. The classic exposure gave him the ability to do it again.

You are the one that brought up how great FLW is compared to BASS. FLW is great until you longer have the means to contribute by purchasing their boats. TAlking about the benefits of just the FLW. Next they are the ONLY NATIONAL tours! And the question was if BASS was coming.

You are making our point. People have beat on BASS for giving a boat away. People bash on WON for giving a boat away. Then you turn around and make the GOOD point that Cash is VERY hard to get.

But some of you guy do your LEVEL best to not fish a trail that doesn't give you cash.

FLW got it from Walmart and their ability to offer marketing space for their troubles. Also the sale of high priced boats.

Fishing pro is expensive. It needs to be. Im so glad BASS got rid of the Wild Cards, got rid of going down the OPEN list until they fill the field. Now they only go so far and then go to the pool of Elites to get the Field.
What the fees mean is that guys don't drop out of the field like they did this year.
That is why if you aren't in the top 1-3 of the trail and don't have the backing you shouldn't be in the elites. The Financial side will get you down and your mind off fishing.
Not to be brutal but thats how it should be. Which is why I believe if you are qualifying through going down the list, a wild card, or with minimal winnings you should pass.
Im not saying for someone to have to win a tournament but being consistently in the money with some top 10s and top 5s should be a must. Consistency is worth more than winning one tournament and bombing 3 more.

I do think it would be a LOT easier to get into the FLW than BASS. Heck you can get in the Series right now, just bring a checkbook

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:55 am

CN wrote:Fish both give them a reason to come back. I have seen this debate before on this and other site's and YOU have to give them there ROI (return on investment)or they wont invest any longer.

Who care's if your fishing for a buck whether it's BASS or FLW.

BASS has done probably more than any orginization has for this sport but so has Forrest L Wood think about it.

Mike Nance

Bingo. All people do is Bash on BASS, why would they come out here? Everyone puts on a Ranger hat and says how great FLW is.

Free Healthcare is great until you realize that its NOT really that free. So selling out for something that looks great, you just completely limited your options. Then you made X the monopoly.

Again I personally like to fish FLW. All I am saying is don't go bashing on other trails. Support them too or you might not like what you end up with. FLW is a business to sell boats and make money. If I was in charge I would drive out the competition and then I would do whatever I wanted. If you didnt like it... whats that Rick G says " dont like it get out of FLW's sandbox"
Sorry but that is not the way to grow the sport. Shutting down other trails and setting your own "take it or $#@ off " rules.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:20 am

Again, I don't understand your point. Those anglers that fish tournaments year end and year out and have fished for a living have always fished any and every tournament available. Period.

We don't care if its WON, WCB, AC, ABA, FLW, BASS, Snag Proof, or anything else for that matter. I have always and will always support EVERY organization that support US. There are about 20-30 guys that show up at every major tournament for the love of the sport. We don't have these conversations about which is better or worse. We want to fish!

Many of us are not doing this to get discovered or take sides. We love to test our skills against the best that are willing to up their money where and when it counts.

I would love to see BASS come out West again. I fished them when they were here from the get go. It just adds to the opportunities to fish a tournament on a nearby lake. The more the better.

I'm not taking anyone's side because this entire conversation is mute if you don't even fish tournaments. It just becomes something else to complain about.

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:27 am

[quote="j10bI agree but,
To address the nascar deal, that is what ESPN is comparing it too in their powerpoint they give to pros. [/quote]

No you're right man, but the powerpoint is saying the demographic is the same, not the demographic reach...meaning Nascar reaches deeper and wider into the demographic than fishing.

You guys all have some good points. I'm not a FLW or BASS hater. They both offer something good.

For me personally, my childhood dream is to be an Elite Series pro b/c I personally feel the competition is the best there. People who know me know that I've been planning for this and setting myself up (sponsors, location, etc.) for 7+ years now since living up in the Northwest. I talk to a lot of the pros out there and room w/ them on the road...I knows its a hard road to haul but its in my blood so I gotta shoot for my dream sometime and BASS is it for me.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:30 am

When did I say I didnt fish tournaments? Point is you mention anything about BASS or WON and people go NUTS. Go ahead and post something good about WON or BASS. Post something about FLW and people are jumping on that bandwagon so fast they snap an ankle.

You have said the fees for bass are too high, that you would rather fish FLW. To me if I was BASS reading I would say you are not interested. Yes you said you were but it seems like if you had enough $$ to fish one or the other you would pick FLW.

FLW will let you chase your dreams as long as they get full fields of ranger boats. The second they don't well look at lake mead. FLW tried 2x and bailed.
There are rumors of it leaving most of the West as it is.

The opens will come out here when people start emailing bass to get in then when it shows you talk with your boat and get in the tournaments.

Like I have said. I am heading back to the east in 6-9 months. I'll be fishing the opens before I go near the strens or others. For 3k I can fish the Opens and if my skills are good enough well that is someones chance. I'd still pass.
Strens even in the east still cost more as there are more of them and you have all the travel costs from one end of TX to the other.
Less of a payout too. BASS will pay you regardless of the year and brand of boat you run.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:34 am

jsoregon wrote:[quote="j10bI agree but,
To address the nascar deal, that is what ESPN is comparing it too in their powerpoint they give to pros.

No you're right man, but the powerpoint is saying the demographic is the same, not the demographic reach...meaning Nascar reaches deeper and wider into the demographic than fishing.

You guys all have some good points. I'm not a FLW or BASS hater. They both offer something good.

For me personally, my childhood dream is to be an Elite Series pro b/c I personally feel the competition is the best there. People who know me know that I've been planning for this and setting myself up (sponsors, location, etc.) for 7+ years now since living up in the Northwest. I talk to a lot of the pros out there and room w/ them on the road...I knows its a hard road to haul but its in my blood so I gotta shoot for my dream sometime and BASS is it for me.[/quote]

I assumed that it was known it was the demographic

see what assuming gets me?

I agree with Smiley, I dont hate on either one. I will point out the differences when someone comes in sucking the FLW koolaid like its the greatest thing that has ever happened to the sport.

That joke is on you. Look at what you have in your boat, everything FLW told you to have. Who is looking out for who?

I can accept that and still fish FLW. Can you accept that BASS won't make you a millionaire with one tournament?

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:13 am

j10b wrote:I will point out the differences when someone comes in sucking the FLW koolaid like its the greatest thing that has ever happened to the sport.

That joke is on you. Look at what you have in your boat, everything FLW told you to have. Who is looking out for who?

Thats the best comment in this whole thread. Laughing my bASS off on that one...!!! lol..

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:32 pm

[/quote]

Thats the best comment in this whole thread. Laughing my bASS off on that one...!!! lol..

[/quote]

I thought the best comment in this thread was the guy who swears up and down that Nixon was the only angler to have an FLW deal and not be in a Ranger....

Or how about the Angler who is comparing his Co Angler winnings (in a shared event) to a Boaters winnings...

Or how about the Angler who travels from So Cal to Texas to fish BASS and doesn't even know that they take the top 2 to the Bassmasters Classic not 3

Or about the Seasoned Tournament Angler waisting his time dealing with this thread....

Now that makes me laugh my Bass off........

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:40 pm

N.A.R wrote:

Thats the best comment in this whole thread. Laughing my bASS off on that one...!!! lol..

[/quote]

I thought the best comment in this thread was the guy who swears up and down that Nixon was the only angler to have an FLW deal and not be in a Ranger....

Or how about the Angler who is comparing his Co Angler winnings (in a shared event) to a Boaters winnings...

Or how about the Angler who travels from So Cal to Texas to fish BASS and doesn't even know that they take the top 2 to the Bassmasters Classic not 3

Or about the Seasoned Tournament Angler waisting his time dealing with this thread....

Now that makes me laugh my Bass off........[/quote]

I find you funny, at least some of us have tried something... other than sit behind a keyboard and out fish all of us WTF have you done?

Oh you got yourself a ranger and became a follower. You should realize who either got big fish everyday or was #6. LOL PS Not one day did I put less than 2 solid keepers that weighed in the boat. I, regardless of the impact, actually won something, You? My excuse is that my boat is 1500 away.

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:10 am

lol...

Enough said for me. You can't win again ghost writters. They are the best in the league at everything...

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:20 pm

See you at the #3 stop on the Basin James, If my cousin doesnt put her wedding ontop of it. If not I'll be there next year. I was 275th this year so I obviously didnt get in. I shoulda used my top 30 from the prior year. Had a zillion chances to get in but I wasnt gonna fish the Basin with my boat so i only entered 2 and it didnt work out for me. Couldn't get the leave for the Southerns.

Edit: about 60% of our fish came off my spots for an FYI

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:53 pm

I'm looking forward to eating some raw snake and lizard! lol...

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:35 am

Get you some blackened gator too, really good stuff. If you need a roommate for costs for the basin I might be there at least a few of the days. Unless my cousin ruins everything like it looks LOL

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:15 pm

Wow Ricky,

Man you go deep, I'm an Average Triton guy that cant see through the light??????

What are you???

An above average Ranger DONER... Keep dropin the $$$$ every other year to qualify for a full purse... And when you realize your just a ginny pig drinkin the FLW cool aid, you'll see the light yourself....

But go ahead and say they pay you or you get a great deal, that will make you feel better...

10 to 1 says if BASS shows in the west and you RE-qualify for the Elite's you'll do back flips to get in....Thats the light...

Thanks

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:31 pm

Terry Battisti · Post by **Terry Battisti** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:23 pm

redPHish wrote:Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing BASS:

Rick Clunn
Paul Elias
Mark Davis
Denny Brauer
Davy Hite
Kevin VanDam
Michael Iaconelli
Boyd Duckett
Skeet Reese
Takahiro Omori
Alton Jones

Bassmaster Classic Winners currently fishing FLW:

Tommy Martin
Larry Nixon
George Cochran
Guido Hibdon
David Fritts
Dion Hibdon
Woo Daves
Jay Yelas
Luke Clausen

and...

Iaconelli and Omori fish FLW events.

I predict several more Elite Series anglers will fish FLW events next year.

Goes both ways. A bunch of FLW guys went over to BASS and won. Lane, Kennedy, Iaconelli all went over to BASS and won. Denny, Kevin and others fished FLW for a long time and never won. There are a bunch of Elite guys I've still never heard of. The latest winner until he won the last event for example.

Iaconelli started with bass by fishing the Federation. He qualified for the Classic through the federation the first time this way. The next year he went to the Bassmaster Tour and won the Classic in 2003. He didn't move over to BASS, he was fishing both at the same time.

As for KVD, he won AOY on the FLW Tour in 2001 and was 2nd in 2002. If this isn;t winning anything I don't know what is???

Denny Brauer was AOY in the FLW tour in 1998. He quit fishing the FLW tour in 2003.

The only way more Elite guys will fish the FLW tour is if the two tours decide not to conflict schedule. This year, as in the past, its been FLW who's conflicted the tours. Till then, the Elite guys will fish the Strens and Series events in order to make the Cup and make some extra cash. That was very evident this year.

I just did an interview with Hackney and he stated that he will be fishing the FLW events he can this year that don't conflict with the Elites. That statement right there should tell you he is dedicated to the Elites and not looking to go to FLW. One thing he did say is both tours need to work together so they can fish them all.

I don't know if any of you guys have read my articles on the state of bass tournaments in the west on Inside Line. I interviewed Colby, Batey and Dobyns and got their takes on what is wrong in the west these days. You might want to go and read them. www.insideline.net

There are problems with both orgs and something needs to be done about it or bass fishing and the "dream" of making a living at it will vanish.

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