California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

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California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby WB Staff » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:10 pm

California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over river project.png


The Trump administration and California officials have sued each other, swapped insults on Twitter and clashed on everything from climate change to immigration.

But threatening someone with jail time? That might be a new one.

The threats came in a dispute over reintroducing winter-run Chinook salmon into the McCloud River, a pristine river above Shasta Dam, as part of a federal plan approved under the Obama administration to try to stave off extinction for the critically endangered fish.

In preparation for the project, the California Department of Water Resources stockpiled netting, buoys and floating docks on a boat ramp controlled by the U.S. Forest Service at Shasta Lake, into which the McCloud flows.
More info : https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/ ... _Vs1SXh6cI

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby mark poulson » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:19 pm

WB Staff wrote:California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over river project.png

The Trump administration and California officials have sued each other, swapped insults on Twitter and clashed on everything from climate change to immigration.

But threatening someone with jail time? That might be a new one.

The threats came in a dispute over reintroducing winter-run Chinook salmon into the McCloud River, a pristine river above Shasta Dam, as part of a federal plan approved under the Obama administration to try to stave off extinction for the critically endangered fish.

In preparation for the project, the California Department of Water Resources stockpiled netting, buoys and floating docks on a boat ramp controlled by the U.S. Forest Service at Shasta Lake, into which the McCloud flows.
More info : https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/ ... _Vs1SXh6cI

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Steve » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:57 pm

Mark, what would be the benefit of stocking Sacramento River Winter-run Chinook above Shasta Dam?

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Chad Sweitzer » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:37 am

If these fish can swim into Shasta I'm all for it. Those spots will feed on the salmon if they stock them small enough.
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby mark poulson » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Steve wrote:Mark, what would be the benefit of stocking Sacramento River Winter-run Chinook above Shasta Dam?

"The threats came in a dispute over reintroducing winter-run Chinook salmon into the McCloud River, a pristine river above Shasta Dam, as part of a federal plan approved under the Obama administration to try to stave off extinction for the critically endangered fish."
They're trying to save salmon that have been devastated by pumping water out of the Delta.
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Steve » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:36 am

Mark:

The Sacramento River Winter-run Chinook Salmon ESU is anadromous. Fish reintroduced above Shasta dam, or any dam for that matter, would not contribute to the anadromous population. So Im just wondering how this reintroduction would contribute to the population and help save the ESU?

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby mark poulson » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:38 pm

Steve wrote:Mark:

The Sacramento River Winter-run Chinook Salmon ESU is anadromous. Fish reintroduced above Shasta dam, or any dam for that matter, would not contribute to the anadromous population. So Im just wondering how this reintroduction would contribute to the population and help save the ESU?

I know you're right, but maybe it can help them tread water until they stop draining the Delta.
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby ash » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:32 am

Chad Sweitzer wrote:If these fish can swim into Shasta I'm all for it. Those spots will feed on the salmon if they stock them small enough.
Chad if this is the case the Spotted Bass will be put on the kill list as they are non native fish killing native endangered species

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Steve » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:04 pm

Technically Ash the reintroduced fish would not be part of the protected population, and I believe that humans would be allowed to catch and eat them as well.

I suppose the only benefit to these reintroduction's above a migration barrier is to preserve the gene pool for future management efforts. Regardless, these operations are very costly and Ive always felt that the money would be more beneficial to the population by investing it in habitat restoration efforts within the species anadromous waters. Just look at how successful the habitat restorations have been for Winter-run below Keswick Dam. More return for your money IMO.

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby steve0806 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:40 am

WB Staff wrote:California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over river project.png

The Trump administration and California officials have sued each other, swapped insults on Twitter and clashed on everything from climate change to immigration.

But threatening someone with jail time? That might be a new one.

The threats came in a dispute over reintroducing winter-run Chinook salmon into the McCloud River, a pristine river above Shasta Dam, as part of a federal plan approved under the Obama administration to try to stave off extinction for the critically endangered fish.

In preparation for the project, the California Department of Water Resources stockpiled netting, buoys and floating docks on a boat ramp controlled by the U.S. Forest Service at Shasta Lake, into which the McCloud flows.
More info : https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/ ... _Vs1SXh6cI

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby steve0806 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:46 am

Shame on you, WB Staff! Your headline is way out of bounds. Read the Fed cease and desist letter. It properly quotes what is in the regulation.

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Rod Martin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:29 pm

Did anybody read the article.

I got water below the dam is too hot fish cannot breed so stocked above dam then recaught moved below the dam to go on their merry way.

Where does it say anything about pumping in the Delta is the reason seems it is temp of the water below the dam
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby WB Staff » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:48 pm

@steve

WB didn't write the title... it is from the Sac Bee. We only shared their article as noted in the credit at the link.
WB takes no credit for the info. WB is sharing info that is available for discussion on our fisheries.

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Rod Martin » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:48 am

I think it must have been a liberal newspaper that came up with that headline.

Anytime a gov. agency sends out something like that it has that kind of language in it. So another blown out headline


But it sure looks good :lol:
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby mark poulson » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:46 am

Rod Martin wrote:I think it must have been a liberal newspaper that came up with that headline.

Anytime a gov. agency sends out something like that it has that kind of language in it. So another blown out headline


But it sure looks good :lol:

But it is still worrisome. To me, it is a reminder of just how much power, for good or for bad, the Federal Government has.
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Rod Martin » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:20 pm

mark poulson wrote:
Rod Martin wrote:I think it must have been a liberal newspaper that came up with that headline.

Anytime a gov. agency sends out something like that it has that kind of language in it. So another blown out headline


But it sure looks good :lol:

But it is still worrisome. To me, it is a reminder of just how much power, for good or for bad, the Federal Government has.



I agree, in the beginning I think there were 4 departments in the federal gov. and it was the federal gov's job to defend our borders and a few other things.

I could live with that. Get out of water (unless it is a border between states) get out of land, give it all back to the states whose borders it is in.
and most important do not duplicate any state agency . Then if a state screws the pooch don't give them any aid


Have a nice weekend
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby mark poulson » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:01 pm

Rod Martin wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
Rod Martin wrote:I think it must have been a liberal newspaper that came up with that headline.

Anytime a gov. agency sends out something like that it has that kind of language in it. So another blown out headline


But it sure looks good :lol:

But it is still worrisome. To me, it is a reminder of just how much power, for good or for bad, the Federal Government has.



I agree, in the beginning I think there were 4 departments in the federal gov. and it was the federal gov's job to defend our borders and a few other things.

I could live with that. Get out of water (unless it is a border between states) get out of land, give it all back to the states whose borders it is in.
and most important do not duplicate any state agency . Then if a state screws the pooch don't give them any aid


Have a nice weekend

First and foremost, the Federal Government is supposed to uphold and defend the Constitution.
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Rod Martin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:47 am

mark poulson wrote:
Rod Martin wrote:
mark poulson wrote:But it is still worrisome. To me, it is a reminder of just how much power, for good or for bad, the Federal Government has.



I agree, in the beginning I think there were 4 departments in the federal gov. and it was the federal gov's job to defend our borders and a few other things.

I could live with that. Get out of water (unless it is a border between states) get out of land, give it all back to the states whose borders it is in.
and most important do not duplicate any state agency . Then if a state screws the pooch don't give them any aid


Have a nice weekend

First and foremost, the Federal Government is supposed to uphold and defend the Constitution.



Sorry Mark, I thought that was a given but yes defend the Constitution as it was written. I'm not much on liberal interpretation and I'm not much on adding to the Federal Gov. I am a firm believer in states rights
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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby WRB » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:23 am

Moving back to the topic of capturing adult king salmon and transporting them to the McCloud River so the salmon can spawn followed a year later by recapturing young King salmon migrating down into lake Shasta at the confluence of the McCloud River entering the McCloud rive arm seems on it's face feasible.
What could go wrong? The adult King salmon are big fish and die after spawning. Without a population of bears and Eagles to eat the dead salmon they float back down the McCloud attracting gulls that also eat the salmon smelt. Hoping the salmon smelt stay in the McCloud before growing to recapture size isn't known. The thermal shock of capturing any fish from very cold water of the McCloud and transporting to the Sacramento River below the dam will result in high mortality rates. The salmon must be conditioned slowly to water temperature changes that occur naturally when migration down free running rivers to the ocean.
It's a feel good plan without considering all the factors. First and foremost the removal of Sea Lions from the Bay Area before providing them another food source.
Tom

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Re: California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over Shasta (McCLoud river project)

Postby Rod Martin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:09 pm

WRB wrote:Moving back to the topic of capturing adult king salmon and transporting them to the McCloud River so the salmon can spawn followed a year later by recapturing young King salmon migrating down into lake Shasta at the confluence of the McCloud River entering the McCloud rive arm seems on it's face feasible.
What could go wrong? The adult King salmon are big fish and die after spawning. Without a population of bears and Eagles to eat the dead salmon they float back down the McCloud attracting gulls that also eat the salmon smelt. Hoping the salmon smelt stay in the McCloud before growing to recapture size isn't known. The thermal shock of capturing any fish from very cold water of the McCloud and transporting to the Sacramento River below the dam will result in high mortality rates. The salmon must be conditioned slowly to water temperature changes that occur naturally when migration down free running rivers to the ocean.
It's a feel good plan without considering all the factors. First and foremost the removal of Sea Lions from the Bay Area before providing them another food source.
Tom



California officials threatened with jail byTrump admin over river project.png

Nobody reads the article, It was about Trump admin threating California officials with jail.


It said so in the headline.

Then it had some story of YOUNG Fish from a hatchery planted above a dam until they grew up and were ready to migrate to the ocean. At that time they would be recaught and taken below the dam to swim out to sea.

So it was really about Trump being mean. Show me where I'm wrong

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