Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

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WB Staff
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Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

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121684204_10158010336219563_1328961857661660589_n.jpg
From Restore the Delta Most of you don’t follow twitter. That’s a very smart decision.
But occasionally, something wonderful and informative pops up.

Today, we share this thread from Caleb Scoville Ph.D., Asst. Professor of Sociology at Tufts University.

"I was bombarded w/ messages about Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish,” the delta smelt, the topic of my dissertation & current book project. I wrote a short reaction piece but was unable to get it published as an oped. Here it is a thread"

Read more here: https://www.restorethedelta.org/2020/10 ... -10-14-20/
gabuelhaj
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by gabuelhaj »

What was said, can’t be un-said. It’s the little fishes fault till eternity... :|

Good luck!
Glenn Abuelhaj
wph13
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by wph13 »

I could be wrong here but, all this article is an attack on Trump. It never said how important the smelt was. What is does or why it's so good to have.You don't eat them. One thing I do know is that it is an non-indigenous fish. So, it came here from somewhere else. I wouldn't take water from the farmers over it. I also wouldn't slaughter it either.
Hogbassing
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Hogbassing »

The tiny fish is a canary in the gold mine. Taking water out of the delta takes salmon out of the commercial fisherman. It also takes money out off the community that have the weekend tourist. How about we modernize the delta and build more dams. The dams dont need to be huge. Small to medium size. Like they do in the north African countrys
BigD
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by BigD »

Left wing BS. A victim is always used to perpetuate the agenda. A little fishy... Spotted owl....
Its for the children..... Do you hate children? Why would you say such thing? You are a Bully! A Hater! CLIMATE DENIER! etc. Shut up and obey the lie. Print it on toilet paper. Love the Delta, Hate BS
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

BigD wrote:Left wing BS. A victim is always used to perpetuate the agenda. A little fishy... Spotted owl....
Its for the children..... Do you hate children? Why would you say such thing? You are a Bully! A Hater! CLIMATE DENIER! etc. Shut up and obey the lie. Print it on toilet paper. Love the Delta, Hate BS
I think that is harsh, and unjustified. An ecosystem is "a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment." A healthy ecosystem is reliant on all of its parts being healthy.
If being able to make a living kills something else, find a different way to go about making your living. That doesn't mean stop farming, it means change the way you farm. Planting nut trees, which require 24/7 irrigation with subsidized water, for export means making a profit at the expense of our own ecosystem.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Robb R »

mark poulson wrote:
BigD wrote:Left wing BS. A victim is always used to perpetuate the agenda. A little fishy... Spotted owl....
Its for the children..... Do you hate children? Why would you say such thing? You are a Bully! A Hater! CLIMATE DENIER! etc. Shut up and obey the lie. Print it on toilet paper. Love the Delta, Hate BS
I think that is harsh, and unjustified. An ecosystem is "a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment." A healthy ecosystem is reliant on all of its parts being healthy.
If being able to make a living kills something else, find a different way to go about making your living. That doesn't mean stop farming, it means change the way you farm. Planting nut trees, which require 24/7 irrigation with subsidized water, for export means making a profit at the expense of our own ecosystem.
I agree , left wing , crying at the sky BS . Ask yourself why PG&E is in bankruptcy !!! The Sierra Club convinced the PUC and our Government to only allow PG&E to cut tree's 4 feet from power lines and transformers . PGE wanted to and proposed a minimum of 16feet . THe Sierra club won because liberals want utopian style ideals . Add the Sierra Clubs added stance to reducing forest management to almost ZERO --- and you end up with millions of acres of tree's burned , hundreds of people killed , untold billions in cost . BUT , they were so strongly convinced they were doing the " right thing " in saving those poor little tree's . THe Delta should no longer support SoCal water demands , especially since they seem to control our State Government when it comes to water rights . Let them tax their citizens in SoCal for other water sources and leave NorCal alone .
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

How does any of that make using 80% of the state's water for agriculture okay, when a large part of that is for export.
It's one thing to grow food for our domestic needs, it's another thing entirely to grow nuts and alfalfa, two very water intensive crops, in a desert area for export. Stuart Resnick and his Southern San Joaquin farmers are shipping our water overseas, and they don't even pay delivery costs for it.
If Resnick stopped farming nuts, there would be no water shortages, even in drought years.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by El Jefe »

Here’s the deal.... the valley is an ideal climate to grow crops. Mark.....you have zero clue about how much water almonds or alfalfa use and the fact is we use less water per acre than we did 20 years ago but farm more acreage and support more people in urban areas with virtually the same amount of water.

That doesn’t mean everyone needs to live here.... the masses could easily live in a water rich state with a less desirable climate for agriculture. That’s why urbanites should bear the lions share of the cost..... tax them till they leave and we can be a red state again.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

El Jefe wrote:Here’s the deal.... the valley is an ideal climate to grow crops. Mark.....you have zero clue about how much water almonds or alfalfa use and the fact is we use less water per acre than we did 20 years ago but farm more acreage and support more people in urban areas with virtually the same amount of water.

That doesn’t mean everyone needs to live here.... the masses could easily live in a water rich state with a less desirable climate for agriculture. That’s why urbanites should bear the lions share of the cost..... tax them till they leave and we can be a red state again.
Why should the Southern San Joaquin farmers be able to farm desert land with below delivery cost public water and raise high water use crops for export?
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by El Jefe »

Its not public water... it is “owned” by water rights holders. Furthermore, they farm in less desirable areas because of “urban sprawl” that has encroached on prime ag land.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

El Jefe wrote:Its not public water... it is “owned” by water rights holders. Furthermore, they farm in less desirable areas because of “urban sprawl” that has encroached on prime ag land.
They don't own the water. If it were their water, they wouldn't have to pay anything, but they do. It is our public water, but, because of water laws that were enacted a century ago, when agriculture was the main industry in CA, they have grandfathered rights to the water. Agriculture is now only 2% of California's GDP, and yet it controls 80% of our drinking water. That's like having horse and buggy traffic laws take precedence over automobiles. When something is wrong, it's wrong.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by hydro »

El Jefe wrote:Its not public water... it is “owned” by water rights holders. Furthermore, they farm in less desirable areas because of “urban sprawl” that has encroached on prime ag land.
Part right . The Central valley Project under the direction of former California Governor Edmund G Brown in the 1960's built canals from the Delta to the central valley to irrigate land that had always been basically a desert . Before the plan was revealed to the public well connected insiders raced to the central valley and bought up all this desert land they could on the cheap to make huge profits once the irrigation water arrived . Large agribusiness corporations started farming the central valley project lands and slowly put the long time California family farmers out of business .
Many of these family farmers held out as long as they could before selling their farm land to developers who ripped out the crops to put housing subdivisions in their place taking this farmland out of production forever .
El Jefe
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by El Jefe »

Sure they do....At least as far as the irrigation districts go....you said it, water RIGHTS. The infrastructure was built by them and then they sell that water to cover the operating costs or even turn a profit.

When urban sprawl became the norm, they chose to sell their excess water to cities..... now urbanites are over populating the state and demanding that the farmers give up our way of life to keep your lawn green.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Robb R »

El Jefe wrote:Here’s the deal.... the valley is an ideal climate to grow crops. Mark.....you have zero clue about how much water almonds or alfalfa use and the fact is we use less water per acre than we did 20 years ago but farm more acreage and support more people in urban areas with virtually the same amount of water.

That doesn’t mean everyone needs to live here.... the masses could easily live in a water rich state with a less desirable climate for agriculture. That’s why urbanites should bear the lions share of the cost..... tax them till they leave and we can be a red state again.
El Jefe ,
Your statement is false regarding the water consumption . A small portion of that land is perfect for growing crops --- because the soil is good . For the soil that Stuart Resnick is farming for Almond tree's ---- it could not be worse . He basically bought that land for nothing , had all the water rights needed to start planting --- then he realized over many years those trees can't survive -- He uses 20-30 TIMES more water per tree to keep them alive . All that water he use's drives the salts and minerals " up " to the root zone and eventually kills the tree's . I have travelled down I5 many times and seen thousands of almond tree's being pulled out and destroyed ---- every year . The Resnicks and Browns go way back , Jerry's dad was good friends with Stuart Resnicks dad ---- and the dirty deal they cooked up to steal water from Californians is still in affect . It's estimated Stuart Resnick net worth is between $3 to $4 Billion dollars--- selling Almonds . In addition , it is estimated that he makes $11-14million a year selling our water back to the municipalities
I don't hate farmers --- in fact I grow my own vegetables and enjoy the work . People like Stuart Resnick are just plain greedy and worthless --- and they made their " fortunes " because our politicians have been corrupt for decades.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by El Jefe »

Robb R wrote:
El Jefe ,
Your statement is false regarding the water consumption . A small portion of that land is perfect for growing crops --- because the soil is good . For the soil that Stuart Resnick is farming for Almond tree's ---- it could not be worse . He basically bought that land for nothing , had all the water rights needed to start planting --- then he realized over many years those trees can't survive -- He uses 20-30 TIMES more water per tree to keep them alive . All that water he use's drives the salts and minerals " up " to the root zone and eventually kills the tree's . I have travelled down I5 many times and seen thousands of almond tree's being pulled out and destroyed ---- every year . The Resnicks and Browns go way back , Jerry's dad was good friends with Stuart Resnicks dad ---- and the dirty deal they cooked up to steal water from Californians is still in affect . It's estimated Stuart Resnick net worth is between $3 to $4 Billion dollars--- selling Almonds . In addition , it is estimated that he makes $11-14million a year selling our water back to the municipalities
I don't hate farmers --- in fact I grow my own vegetables and enjoy the work . People like Stuart Resnick are just plain greedy and worthless --- and they made their " fortunes " because our politicians have been corrupt for decades.

No , it’s true. 20-30 years ago they would have been flood irrigating that land or not growing there at all..... advances in drip and micro means trees use a lot less water than they used too. I have been farming almonds and in the irrigation business all of my life and am 4th generation so what do I know.... hell, you drive down I5 multiple times so your an expert like Mark.

You guys show your ignorance by keep bringing up Resnick..... he probably doesn’t farm 1% of the almonds in this state. Do you guys have any idea how many guys there are farming less than a 100 acres..... we are talking about multiple issues here but I get real bent by all the farmer bashing by people who live in town....are there a few who bend the rules or break them...of course but most of us are just trying to hang onto what we have and building more houses ain’t gonna help us or the Delta.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Robb R »

El Jefe wrote:
Robb R wrote:
El Jefe ,
Your statement is false regarding the water consumption . A small portion of that land is perfect for growing crops --- because the soil is good . For the soil that Stuart Resnick is farming for Almond tree's ---- it could not be worse . He basically bought that land for nothing , had all the water rights needed to start planting --- then he realized over many years those trees can't survive -- He uses 20-30 TIMES more water per tree to keep them alive . All that water he use's drives the salts and minerals " up " to the root zone and eventually kills the tree's . I have travelled down I5 many times and seen thousands of almond tree's being pulled out and destroyed ---- every year . The Resnicks and Browns go way back , Jerry's dad was good friends with Stuart Resnicks dad ---- and the dirty deal they cooked up to steal water from Californians is still in affect . It's estimated Stuart Resnick net worth is between $3 to $4 Billion dollars--- selling Almonds . In addition , it is estimated that he makes $11-14million a year selling our water back to the municipalities
I don't hate farmers --- in fact I grow my own vegetables and enjoy the work . People like Stuart Resnick are just plain greedy and worthless --- and they made their " fortunes " because our politicians have been corrupt for decades.

No , it’s true. 20-30 years ago they would have been flood irrigating that land or not growing there at all..... advances in drip and micro means trees use a lot less water than they used too. I have been farming almonds and in the irrigation business all of my life and am 4th generation so what do I know.... hell, you drive down I5 multiple times so your an expert like Mark.

You guys show your ignorance by keep bringing up Resnick..... he probably doesn’t farm 1% of the almonds in this state. Do you guys have any idea how many guys there are farming less than a 100 acres..... we are talking about multiple issues here but I get real bent by all the farmer bashing by people who live in town....are there a few who bend the rules or break them...of course but most of us are just trying to hang onto what we have and building more houses ain’t gonna help us or the Delta.
Do you have 4 generations of growing almonds in the same exact soil that Resnick is using --- I doubt it . The soil he is growing on is bad and using drip irrigation causes the same problem . Salts get pushed up and plants suffer a slow burn . How do I know it's still a problem ? A very good friend of mine is the top technical guy for a large organic fertilizer company --- he does seminars worldwide to teach farmers and agricultural leaders to maximize yields without damaging their soils . He has visited Resnicks land , most of it is bad to really bad , and they can't stop the mineral/salt problem . I am in NO WAY bashing farmers , and in no way bashing what you do for a living . I was merely pointing out the total corruption of our previous Government and how the Resnicks and Browns has screwed California , including small farmers.
Farmers need more water for sure ---- but not just for a select few that have powerful connections .
I truly believe the small farmers should be the future model moving forward , we have all seen what big corporate farmers are doing to our food supply .
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

Robb R wrote:
El Jefe wrote:
Robb R wrote:
El Jefe ,
Your statement is false regarding the water consumption . A small portion of that land is perfect for growing crops --- because the soil is good . For the soil that Stuart Resnick is farming for Almond tree's ---- it could not be worse . He basically bought that land for nothing , had all the water rights needed to start planting --- then he realized over many years those trees can't survive -- He uses 20-30 TIMES more water per tree to keep them alive . All that water he use's drives the salts and minerals " up " to the root zone and eventually kills the tree's . I have travelled down I5 many times and seen thousands of almond tree's being pulled out and destroyed ---- every year . The Resnicks and Browns go way back , Jerry's dad was good friends with Stuart Resnicks dad ---- and the dirty deal they cooked up to steal water from Californians is still in affect . It's estimated Stuart Resnick net worth is between $3 to $4 Billion dollars--- selling Almonds . In addition , it is estimated that he makes $11-14million a year selling our water back to the municipalities
I don't hate farmers --- in fact I grow my own vegetables and enjoy the work . People like Stuart Resnick are just plain greedy and worthless --- and they made their " fortunes " because our politicians have been corrupt for decades.

No , it’s true. 20-30 years ago they would have been flood irrigating that land or not growing there at all..... advances in drip and micro means trees use a lot less water than they used too. I have been farming almonds and in the irrigation business all of my life and am 4th generation so what do I know.... hell, you drive down I5 multiple times so your an expert like Mark.

You guys show your ignorance by keep bringing up Resnick..... he probably doesn’t farm 1% of the almonds in this state. Do you guys have any idea how many guys there are farming less than a 100 acres..... we are talking about multiple issues here but I get real bent by all the farmer bashing by people who live in town....are there a few who bend the rules or break them...of course but most of us are just trying to hang onto what we have and building more houses ain’t gonna help us or the Delta.
Do you have 4 generations of growing almonds in the same exact soil that Resnick is using --- I doubt it . The soil he is growing on is bad and using drip irrigation causes the same problem . Salts get pushed up and plants suffer a slow burn . How do I know it's still a problem ? A very good friend of mine is the top technical guy for a large organic fertilizer company --- he does seminars worldwide to teach farmers and agricultural leaders to maximize yields without damaging their soils . He has visited Resnicks land , most of it is bad to really bad , and they can't stop the mineral/salt problem . I am in NO WAY bashing farmers , and in no way bashing what you do for a living . I was merely pointing out the total corruption of our previous Government and how the Resnicks and Browns has screwed California , including small farmers.
Farmers need more water for sure ---- but not just for a select few that have powerful connections .
I truly believe the small farmers should be the future model moving forward , we have all seen what big corporate farmers are doing to our food supply .
I agree that the Resnicks and the Browns have screwed, and continue to screw California and the small farmer.

To quote Wikipedia, "In 2015 it was revealed that the Resnicks and other farmers had been watering their orchards with treated fracking waste water.[53] A water recycling program in California allows oil companies to sell wastewater to landowners, including farmers like the Wonderful Company.[54]"

So not only are they raising and exporting water intensive crops, they are using waste fracking water to raise food crops.
But the wind is shifting, and there is hope on the horizon.
Local politicians see the futility of relying on Delta water when it's going to be reduced by global warming/climate change. The Sierra snow pack will continue to shrink as less snow falls, and what does fall melts too fast to act as a water bank.
Restore the Delta just posted this online:
https://mailchi.mp/restorethedelta/our- ... 7814f96088
Basically, it says Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti has called on MWD to stop developing plans for the Tunnel Project, and to develop locally available water sources instead.
So the economics of the Tunnel Project are threatened by one of the biggest urban water customers, the City of Los Angeles.
Not having urban water needs to use as a smoke screen will expose MDW's water policies for what they are, a naked water grab for Stuart Resnick and his buddies.
I'm sure a lot of palms have already been greased to get the Tunnel built, but, without urban water customers, it will not be economically viable.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by gixxer464 »

Come on Mark. You can't be that gullible. Thats just Garcetti virtue signaling. Where else is Los Angeles gonna get their water from? From our many reservoirs down here. :lol: Los Angeles and many other urban areas are reliant on that Delta water. Good look getting anymore dams built.
Lawley
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Lawley »

Ca does not have a water issue
Ca has a salt issue. You think the ocean will dry up?
With all the green new deal retards around here why can’t we come up with solar energy to run a desalination plant? Oh yeah they did not want salt piles in Marin county
They did not want prescribed burn in the forest to protect a lizard
Now that the forests are burning I bet that lizard is doing really well
So newscum signs and order to rid Ca of gasoline cars. Yeah that will stop the fires
Did anyone ever say liberalism is a mental disorder?
Funny how the fires stop at the Canadian border is it not?
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

Lawley wrote:Ca does not have a water issue
Ca has a salt issue. You think the ocean will dry up?
With all the green new deal retards around here why can’t we come up with solar energy to run a desalination plant? Oh yeah they did not want salt piles in Marin county
They did not want prescribed burn in the forest to protect a lizard
Now that the forests are burning I bet that lizard is doing really well
So newscum signs and order to rid Ca of gasoline cars. Yeah that will stop the fires
Did anyone ever say liberalism is a mental disorder?
Funny how the fires stop at the Canadian border is it not?
Actually, Canada is having the same wildfire problem we have.

Here's a link: https://www.newsweek.com/bc-fire-map-ca ... ng-1104567

Global warming/climate change is affecting the whole world. I understand being frustrated and angry because so little has been done to avoid this, even though climate scientists began warning us all about it in the 1980's. The governments of the world have failed us, in large part because dealing with it isn't "good for business". But a world that can no longer support human beings isn't good for business, either. When today's politicians finally try to address it, I don't think it's fair to criticize them or call them names. They didn't cause the problem. They are just trying to do what they can to fix it.
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Lawley
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Lawley »

Mark
Don t be a sucker
Please tell me you don’t think the climate never changed before man was here
The temperatures have been increasing and decreasing since the Beginning of time.
In and out of mini ice ages.

If you think this is mans fault or man can correct it you clearly have fallen for the lie

You do understand earth has been warming since the last ice age.
Are you going to stop earthquakes too?
Are you going to stop volcanos too?
Look up how much green house gas a single volcano emits
It’s called Mother Nature. You my friend have taken the bait
Look at the science. science tells us mans contribution to climate change is very small among many others that we have No control over
Cow farts for instance. Oh wait let’s stop farming cows. Because the land was not covered in other mammals before man killed them. Remember buffalo? Oh yes. There was millions.
They say the earth temp has increased 2 or 3 degrees in last 100 years. You think that’s why CA is on fire or is it the states excuse for not managing correctly ? Hmmmmmm. Whole earth has climate change. Only CA is on fire. The earth is flat too.

Look into the Vostok ice core samples
They believe through science the earth has always had extreme temperature changes long before you and I joined the newsome liars camp

See you in communist USA
Last edited by Lawley on Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Lawley »

:D :D :)
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by WRB »

The history of water wars in California is epic and interesting to study.
I agree with Mark on the southern San Jauqine Valley farming and now dairy businesses benefiting from the Northern California river system via the aqueducts shipping water south.
Expanding agriculture as the aquafers dry up from 100 years of pumping water makes no sense.
Those "little fish" are the canary in the coal mine, but there has been a lot canaries die over the decades and will continue as man expands the population.
I remember a big fight over the route of the 210 freeway through the Verdugo Hills where I live at the time. The Tujunga wash had a few ponds in the path of the freeway route that a rare fish occupied. The route was altered to go around the ponds and tax payers paid the cost of purchasing property for the new right of way and 2 years delay. Today those ponds are gone, the rare fish extinct and all is forgotten. Those little fish are no more then pawns in a high stake game of politics.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by jiggin4bass »

It's just business nothing personal
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by WRB »

Time changes everything. The statement the southern San Jauqine Valley was a desert is false, lake Tulare was largest lake west if the Mississippi 150 years ago, now the Tulare basin.
Tom
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

WRB wrote:Time changes everything. The statement the southern San Jauqine Valley was a desert is false, lake Tulare was largest lake west if the Mississippi 150 years ago, now the Tulare basin.
Tom
I didn't realize that, Tom. Where did all the water go?
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny

Post by WRB »

For eons the Merced, Kings, Kern several other flowed into the Tulare basin creating a lake 120 miles long and 50 miles wide. Mid 1800's steam ships travel between Bakerfield to Fresno. Dams were built on the rivers to control flooding and a Tulare lake slowly drained into the aquifer. 100 years of pumping aquafers water by famers and towns lowered the water level until the basin was marsh land. It was still marsh land in the 50's and good duck hunting until Boswell came along.
Now it's dry lake bed or well water and mostly aqueduct water today to irrigate agriculture.
Steam ships crossing a big lake is hard to imagine today traveling I5 or 99, Mendota to the Grapevine.
Tom
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny

Post by mark poulson »

WRB wrote:For eons the Merced, Kings, Kern several other flowed into the Tulare basin creating a lake 120 miles long and 50 miles wide. Mid 1800's steam ships travel between Bakerfield to Fresno. Dams were built on the rivers to control flooding and a Tulare lake slowly drained into the aquifer. 100 years of pumping aquafers water by famers and towns lowered the water level until the basin was marsh land. It was still marsh land in the 50's and good duck hunting until Boswell came along.
Now it's dry lake bed or well water and mostly aqueduct water today to irrigate agriculture.
Steam ships crossing a big lake is hard to imagine today traveling I5 or 99, Mendota to the Grapevine.
Tom
Thanks. It is really hard to imagine that area as a lake, or even a marsh land. When I was young, I remember cotton was the big San Joaquin crop. I guess that was Boswell.
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by WRB »

In the 50's the "valley" as the locals refer to still had marsh areas from Mendota pool south to Wasco area with several Federal preserves for ducks and geese. Kern county refuge on the south end had several duck clubs. It looked like cotton fields for miles and miles and potato farms. The north side of the valley was and still has dairy farms, now located near the Wasco and Arvin areas.
Almonds and other orchards plus grapes are newer and spreading across the valley, that is where the water is going from the Delta with more and more demand every year with no end in sight.
Tom
MasterBassinator
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by MasterBassinator »

Robb R wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
BigD wrote:Left wing BS. A victim is always used to perpetuate the agenda. A little fishy... Spotted owl....
Its for the children..... Do you hate children? Why would you say such thing? You are a Bully! A Hater! CLIMATE DENIER! etc. Shut up and obey the lie. Print it on toilet paper. Love the Delta, Hate BS
I think that is harsh, and unjustified. An ecosystem is "a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment." A healthy ecosystem is reliant on all of its parts being healthy.
If being able to make a living kills something else, find a different way to go about making your living. That doesn't mean stop farming, it means change the way you farm. Planting nut trees, which require 24/7 irrigation with subsidized water, for export means making a profit at the expense of our own ecosystem.
I agree , left wing , crying at the sky BS . Ask yourself why PG&E is in bankruptcy !!! The Sierra Club convinced the PUC and our Government to only allow PG&E to cut tree's 4 feet from power lines and transformers . PGE wanted to and proposed a minimum of 16feet . THe Sierra club won because liberals want utopian style ideals . Add the Sierra Clubs added stance to reducing forest management to almost ZERO --- and you end up with millions of acres of tree's burned , hundreds of people killed , untold billions in cost . BUT , they were so strongly convinced they were doing the " right thing " in saving those poor little tree's . THe Delta should no longer support SoCal water demands , especially since they seem to control our State Government when it comes to water rights . Let them tax their citizens in SoCal for other water sources and leave NorCal alone .
You have no clue what you're talking about regarding vegetation management along the power lines. As someone that works in that industry, I will just say this: Stop spreading lies...
mark poulson
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Location: Antioch, CA

Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

MasterBassinator wrote:
Robb R wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
I think that is harsh, and unjustified. An ecosystem is "a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment." A healthy ecosystem is reliant on all of its parts being healthy.
If being able to make a living kills something else, find a different way to go about making your living. That doesn't mean stop farming, it means change the way you farm. Planting nut trees, which require 24/7 irrigation with subsidized water, for export means making a profit at the expense of our own ecosystem.
I agree , left wing , crying at the sky BS . Ask yourself why PG&E is in bankruptcy !!! The Sierra Club convinced the PUC and our Government to only allow PG&E to cut tree's 4 feet from power lines and transformers . PGE wanted to and proposed a minimum of 16feet . THe Sierra club won because liberals want utopian style ideals . Add the Sierra Clubs added stance to reducing forest management to almost ZERO --- and you end up with millions of acres of tree's burned , hundreds of people killed , untold billions in cost . BUT , they were so strongly convinced they were doing the " right thing " in saving those poor little tree's . THe Delta should no longer support SoCal water demands , especially since they seem to control our State Government when it comes to water rights . Let them tax their citizens in SoCal for other water sources and leave NorCal alone .
You have no clue what you're talking about regarding vegetation management along the power lines. As someone that works in that industry, I will just say this: Stop spreading lies...
I'm glad you joined in. Can you direct us to a link that shows how the management is done?
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WRB
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by WRB »

The Los Anglels DWP biult and maintains the Feather River Project Oriville Dam, San Loius Ray Dam and Aqueduct that transports water south to the city of LA who gets about 20% of the water.
Agriculture gets by far the most water. None of this water is free anyone, we all pay for it.
Off topic but the environmental controls on forest land is extreme due to regulations.
The fire fighting agencies must get permission to enter the forest on fire with mechanized equipment like chain saws and vehicles that use gasoline, diesel fuel or oils. Any traditional Indian land must have a local Tribal observer to permit entering thier historical pathways , camp lands or tribe sites.
There is always more to issues then is obvious.
Tom
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Lawley »

Yes. More red tape from lawyers demoRATS and the mental illness called liberalism
mark poulson
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by mark poulson »

WRB wrote:The Los Anglels DWP biult and maintains the Feather River Project Oriville Dam, San Loius Ray Dam and Aqueduct that transports water south to the city of LA who gets about 20% of the water.
Agriculture gets by far the most water. None of this water is free anyone, we all pay for it.
Off topic but the environmental controls on forest land is extreme due to regulations.
The fire fighting agencies must get permission to enter the forest on fire with mechanized equipment like chain saws and vehicles that use gasoline, diesel fuel or oils. Any traditional Indian land must have a local Tribal observer to permit entering thier historical pathways , camp lands or tribe sites.
There is always more to issues then is obvious.
Tom
Tom, I think this is what happens when agencies, like the DFW for example, are run by political appointees, instead of the qualified experts in their respective fields.
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hydro
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by hydro »

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... new-01.png

I must admit I was unaware of the history of the Tulare lake (now basin ) . Looking at the map of the original shoreline of Tulare lake it looks to be mostly farmland today . If the lake still existed in it's natural state there would be little room left for agriculture in the area anyway ? The driver for building most of the dams in California was flood control / prevention with the added benefits of power production and water storage for consumptive water purposes .
Robb R
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by Robb R »

MasterBassinator wrote:
Robb R wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
I think that is harsh, and unjustified. An ecosystem is "a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment." A healthy ecosystem is reliant on all of its parts being healthy.
If being able to make a living kills something else, find a different way to go about making your living. That doesn't mean stop farming, it means change the way you farm. Planting nut trees, which require 24/7 irrigation with subsidized water, for export means making a profit at the expense of our own ecosystem.
I agree , left wing , crying at the sky BS . Ask yourself why PG&E is in bankruptcy !!! The Sierra Club convinced the PUC and our Government to only allow PG&E to cut tree's 4 feet from power lines and transformers . PGE wanted to and proposed a minimum of 16feet . THe Sierra club won because liberals want utopian style ideals . Add the Sierra Clubs added stance to reducing forest management to almost ZERO --- and you end up with millions of acres of tree's burned , hundreds of people killed , untold billions in cost . BUT , they were so strongly convinced they were doing the " right thing " in saving those poor little tree's . THe Delta should no longer support SoCal water demands , especially since they seem to control our State Government when it comes to water rights . Let them tax their citizens in SoCal for other water sources and leave NorCal alone .
You have no clue what you're talking about regarding vegetation management along the power lines. As someone that works in that industry, I will just say this: Stop spreading lies...
Wrong , I am fully aware of how the liberal environmentalist have used donor money to " protect " the tree's .
Could care less if you " work" in the field or not . Facts are that our Government is highly influenced by organizations like PETA and Sierra Club etc... to make policy . PG&E is just a pawn and the PUC doesn't really do oversight .
Follow the money and see who makes actual decisions .
WRB
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by WRB »

Tulare lake made up the southern end of the valley. A massive estuary marsh made up the Delta northern end of the valley. Free flowing major rivers flooded the entier Delta to Sacramento until the Dikes system was contructed and water pumped out inbetween. Everything has changed no more massive flooding and lots of development and farming.
Tom
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Re: Trump’s claims about California water & a “certain little tiny fish

Post by jiggin4bass »

You people need to get a grip this is ca a democrat run state
Trump going to win on Nov 3rd
This is still going to be a democrat state and the water going to flow south there no stoping it. Trump could give a dam what happens here newsome done and he know it the are going to eat this state when come time to hand out money for this state.
Just go vote on Tuesday
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